Architect David McLay Kidd’s peer group of golf course designers, as least by his estimation, is small. It consists of Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw, Tom Doak, and Gil Hanse and Jim Wagner.

This makes sense given that these four design/build operations have accounted for the majority of top ranked courses over the last 25 years, all built on some of the best sites to be developed in the last century. Not only do they get great pieces of land to work with, funded by ambitious owners, they hit home runs with them.

Kidd might add Nick Schaan to his peer group, a designer who has worked closely with him since 2006 in the creation of many of these courses.

Kidd launched into the profession with the original course at Bandon Dunes, followed by the ultra-private Nanea in Hawaii, both inside the top 50 on America’s 100 Greatest courses. But by the time Schaan arrived in the office, the design inspiration had migrated from the open-ended playability of Kidd’s native Scotlish links to a brand of stern, often too stern, architecture exemplified by place like Tetherow in Oregon and The Castle Course at St. Andrews.

Shortly thereafter, Kidd took a hard look at the kind of golf he was building and had something of a revelation. He realized that golf was supposed to be fun, and that the architecture was in no way diminished if it accommodated every level of player and allowed golfers to keep moving forward as long as the landscapes continued to be stimulating.

Gamble Sands.

Stephen Szurlej

Schaan has been instrumental in creating a new generation of playable, fun courses with Kidd that allow average players to recover, with Gamble Sands in Washington State and Mammoth Dunes at Sand Valley in Wisconsin two of the most notable achievements.

Lately, Schaan has taken the lead in building the much-anticipated second course at Gamble Sands, opening in 2025, and he played a major role in the routing and early development of GrayBull, the new Dormie Network course in the Nebraska sand hills that’s now open for play.

In this podcast with Golf Digest architecture editor Derek Duncan, Schaan takes us behind the scenes at DMK Golf Design and goes in-depth about the new Gamble Sands and GrayBull courses while discussing the transition from building tough courses intended for good players to a style of design that emphasizes playability and recovery. He also explains the evolution of that idea, and how with each project he and Kidd advance the philosophy further. They’ve maintained their ideal of defending birdie rather than par, while adding nuance and Easter eggs for better players in the form of strategic lines, enhanced putting contours and tighter green surrounds.

To hear more, please listen below to this in-depth discussion with Nick Schaan.

This article was originally published on golfdigest.com